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Thank you for listening! If this podcast brings you value - do the whole community a solid and give it a rate, review or subscribe and send it to someone who would benefit from it.
Check Out Sam Kaufman here:
www.samkaufmanofficial.com
Instagram @samkaufmanofficial
Facebook @samkaufmanofficial
Linkedin @samkaufmanofficial
Welcome to Never Stop Building, where we discuss all things business, growth and leveling up to become the most elite version of yourself. We're here to challenge fear and shatter doubt. Let's dive in what's up everybody. Welcome back to Never Stop Building. I'm your host. Sam Kaufman is always incredibly pumped and excited to be here talking with you today. Man, I love this podcast and I love y'all. Y'all are awesome.
Speaker 1:I gotta say, man, support for those of you that heard the Clifton Muckinfus episode from four or five episodes man, that was what an impactful episode. That was crazy. For those of you that maybe haven't heard it, I strongly suggest you go back and check out episode 98, navigating Life's Laws of System 4, fortifying Bonds, with Clifton Muckinfus. Man, god just super moved during that particular episode. It was cool. It was really really cool. So I just wanted to thank you guys, the listeners, for all the positive feedback. Man, I needed that. Man, I shared that 10 times. Man, you guys showed up big time for each other by sharing an episode that was impactful for you, and my ask to you is that you continue to do that. If there are episodes that are impactful to you, send them to somebody who might benefit positively from listening to them. That's my big ask. That's what this whole thing is about building this community to help people who help people be 1% better every day, and so that's our goal.
Speaker 1:Today's episode, right now, is gonna be a Q&A episode. I've got a couple of questions that came through. I'm gonna go down the list, I'm gonna answer as many of them as I can, in as much detail as I can, and kick off this the first Q&A of 2024. So I'm excited about it. I'll deliver it to you. Go right in. First question on the list for today is from Mark Zalmanoff.
Speaker 1:If you had to eat one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be? I hate this question. I love you, mark. I hate this question. I hate the what's your favorite food question Because, first of all, I absolutely love food, but it makes it difficult because my favorite food is generally dependent on time of day and situation, and my favorite thing with my family is different than my favorite thing on date night with my wife is different than my favorite thing if it's just me, or if I'm cooking, so to speak. So, but to answer the question and not beat around the bush, which I have successfully or unsuccessfully done.
Speaker 1:Depending on how you look at it. If I need one meal for the rest of my life, it would probably have to be breakfast. And you're thinking, wow, that's not a meal, that's like a type of meal. And so I guess, like if I had to pick, pick, it would probably be like scrambled eggs, bagel and like sausage. Like if calories weren't, macros didn't matter, if nothing mattered, and I just like had to pick something I could literally eat every day. It would have to be some form of breakfast food. For sure. I get pretty.
Speaker 1:I feel like I have to change something up all the time like not all the time, like frequently, but I mean like every other kind of like meal. I usually have to make some kind of adjustment at some point in the process because I get like a little bored. As far as breakfast is concerned, I don't have never in my entire life felt like bored or like I didn't want it, or like I didn't like it, or like I had to adjust it or change it. I just love like eggs, bacon and bagel, or egg, sausage and a bagel, like. That's just like I could do that. So if I had to, had to, had to pick, that would be it for flavor. If I had to pick for like nutrient density and like health, I would probably pick like a filet, like a filet de mignon and sweet potato, and like asparagus or something, because I could eat that every day. It would get super boring after enough meals, but I believe it would help me hit all of the goals that I wanted to hit as I adjusted the size of that meal throughout the day.
Speaker 1:So that's my answer two answers, one, but as specific as I could get it, while also clarifying that I hate that question and I hate when people say what's your favorite food? Dude, stop, I don't have no idea. I don't have like a favorite food and like I don't know anybody does. I think people have like what they want in that moment, but I don't like favorite food. I have no idea. I've always hated that question. I actually hate the what's your favorite anything question, more or less, because for some reason I have like this issue with like committing to one thing is my favorite. What's your favorite movie? Totally depends on the genre, totally depends on the situation. Do I want my favorite comedy versus like my favorite action movie versus like my favorite? I don't know. I don't know. Really hard to pick. Not a huge fan of being siloed into that as a choice. I like to have a little bit of freedom and flexibility in my like what is my favorite man? What a rant on how much I dislike favorites of things. So, all right, moving on.
Speaker 1:Next question was from Dustin Magley All social media ceases to exist. What's your next move? To be quite honest with you, like, simply, if all social media cease to exist, the personal brand side would be difficult. It wouldn't be dead. I wouldn't say so like I don't know. Like if podcasting counts, so let's call social media like. For the context of the question, let's define social media as like Instagram, facebook, tiktok, linkedin, like the ability to post.
Speaker 1:Like that, assuming the internet stays around, assuming I can still podcast, I would find other ways to get like my podcast out there. I'm a very good writer, so I would write more for publications to get my name out there and linked to Google. I used to write for Forbes and Entrepreneur Magazine and so, like I'm a very good writer, I would write more blogs. I would drive people to my website. I would definitely like increase the activity on that side and also like, just just for like point of reference. Like you know, I grew a multi seven figure company before I was using social media at all and so like and I didn't get any leads from for my company all social media. We had social media accounts but they were very, very under utilized and barely posted on and you can do a lot. I've met some, some like hyper financially success and I say hyper like boatloads of money who have never been on social media and so like.
Speaker 1:Social media is an amazing tool for a lot of things, but do I believe that social media is a necessity for success? I absolutely don't. So my very next move would probably be figure out whether or not I'll like line out, figure out whether or not I can continue getting my podcast out there. And then, man, I would go old school with building business and it would be what I've always done. I would market, I would do paid advertising, I would do local community outreach, door knocking, cold calling. This shit works. All that stuff works. All this stuff works. In fact, it works actually better than social media for lead generation, the direct, the referral partnership programs, affiliate partnership programs. This all takes conversations calling, knocking, calling, knocking, building ideal avatar for referrals and affiliates, honing that in doing research on the internet to find those people asking people who I find, if they know anybody like them, to be great partners, and I would bootstrap I hate that term I would build the way that already works and it might take a little longer or it might be a little bit more challenging from certain aspects.
Speaker 1:As far as, like, social media's ability to give you organic reach is incredible to connect with people and meet people. But, to be like very honest with most people I would say 90, I would say well into the close to 100%, well into the 90s percentage. Wise, people don't actually monetize or capitalize on anything on social media. They scroll and then call it personal branding and social media networking and all that stuff, but they don't actually make any money or get any value from it. They just justify their scrolling because somebody told them that they had to be on social media. So like not to knock anybody listening who goes through that. But, like some of you are definitely in that boat where you scroll and justify it as I have to be on here because I have to have a personal brand or my company has to be on here, when in reality, like I could spend 16 minutes a day on social media, get my posts out, make some comments and engage and bring value to audience members, and then get off and literally like have tremendous results, which is typically what I do. Like anything above and beyond that 30 minute mark of social media usage is just time wasting, scrolling. So, honestly, like most of you aren't even using it for what you think or claim you're using it for anyway, and so like if it ceased to exist. My next move would be just build a plan that mimics the exact plan I used with my first company, because that shit works very well. So all social media ceases to exist. My move is build the old fashioned way, the way that has proven time and time and time again for many, many, many years. All right, next question Got two questions from Ed Solomon.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna answer them both in one fell swoop because they are similar questions and, like I actually already yelled at Ed about this, I run some calls for our WinRate Small Business Academy. For those of you that don't know, we have a Small Business Academy. It has a ton of modules that are like best practice of business. We have operations, production, finance, sales, marketing help, all in prerecorded educational courses. It's only $300 a month and you get a weekly group coaching call led by myself or one of the other coaches. It's the most insane value that you could ever get for $300 a month. But Ed and I were on a call talking on that and he brought this up. He actually got fussed at for asking about this. I won't go into detail why, but, ed, I appreciate you. I hope you, I believe you will have taken action on this already before this comes out. So all right.
Speaker 1:So the questions are what are some KPIs someone should have in place for an operations manager and what qualities should an operations manager have? I'm gonna start with what qualities should an operations manager have, and this answer is gonna be a little. It might seem a little ambiguous, but the truth is like, from a for a general perspective, an operations manager needs to have an operational way of looking at and doing business. Looking at things and doing business. They have to be able to be analytical, not, but not overly analytical. They have to have a process oriented way of thinking. They need to be organized. They really need to be pretty decent people like like a pretty decent people person, because when you're an operations manager or a GM, you are both internal employee facing, you are subcontractor facing, you are vendor facing, you are client facing, because with the operations manager role you're plugged into many different facets inside of the organization and so you have to be able to deal with people, listen, be organized, respond well, be prompt.
Speaker 1:I really like operations people to be able to be calm but extremely effective, so like I don't want this person to be like it's like with salespeople often you get, you get all. Salespeople have a little, not all, but like a lot of sales. The people have like some erraticness to their behavior, spurts and inconsistencies in their performance, high ups, low lows. Operations managers like I really really, really, really value consistent energy, consistent output, consistent attitude, consistent workflow, consistent and a willingness to like, get it done. Also for operations management, if you don't have a management training program or you've never managed, like I do, like previous experience, because I've seen and like I'll own this for myself but like I've seen what happens when people don't have previous experience being an operations manager hired by a manager hired by somebody who hasn't previously had an operations manager, and the new hire and the owner are really set up for failure in that scenario, because what happens is the owner really doesn't know how to manage or lead the operations managers. They've never had the role before, and so, if you're hiring your first one, what I would highly encourage is trying to find somebody with experience, because what you're going to need from this person is to come in and help you understand what their role actually is. They are going to have to help you build the department, they're going to have to help you define the processes, and they're going to have to do it in a way that isn't what's best for them selfishly, but they need to be able to see and understand what's best for the business from a business process perspective and so from a quality perspective. Those are just some of the qualities that I really, really, really appreciate.
Speaker 1:For all management and leadership positions, it's really important that, like, you vibe with them, that you enjoy being around them. If you own your organization or you're the leader in a department and you have anybody inside of the department who's in a leadership position, you're going to be interacting a lot, and so, like, if you don't vibe, if you don't get along, if personality tests come back and there's too much conflicting personality issues not that it's not workable, but it will never be as pleasurable as it can be working with people who you really really like. Get it on with. Like really, because like those teams when teams click led by a good ops manager man like oh, that's another quality, the ability to read and to produce data like a really good operations manager at a really high level. Like this person really appreciates data to make decisions instead of emotion to make decisions.
Speaker 1:So now, as far as like, what are some KPIs someone should have in place for an operations manager? I mean, it totally depends, I think, on industry and what you're doing. It's kind of difficult to answer that like from a but like I'll answer it for, like will answer for a home service or construction company. The KPIs for the operations manager no, I did for the department is what's important because the manager is responsible for the KPIs for the department and so some of the operations department KPIs that I like recruiting KPIs if we're in a hiring mode budget KPIs, job costing budget KPIs for like a P&L, like an income statement, like how are we doing on our overhead expenses? Are we profit, profit margins, net profit margins, gross profit margins, client satisfaction, employee satisfaction surveys are a great way to get employee satisfaction KPIs together. So, like things, things in that nature, like recruitment, profit margins, budgeting, satisfaction those are really good places to start. And just don't forget, like it will you bring on operations manager, make sure that every role has a 3060, 90, a 30 day, 60 day and 90 day initiative list for the new hire to know when and if they are winning or failing in their new role. It's a really good way to hold them accountable. So, yeah, this KPIs for an operations manager and what quality should an operations manager have?
Speaker 1:And again, remember this, it's not that I'm not saying that it's completely dependent on industry, like, like none of us are overly unique, but what I am saying is, like, from a KPI perspective, what your business a does is very important, but also what your business be needs is equally important. So, like, the KPIs that I would set for my business are going to be both, because we have two different kinds of KPIs. We have leading and lagging performance indicators. Lagging performance indicators are, with 99% of people, track. They are it's historical data which helps so much make decisions for the future. Not so much pivot right now If you historically go over job costing from six completed jobs and find out that you are estimating completely inaccurately. Well, guess what? You have six jobs currently ongoing that you're going to lose on because you didn't have the data soon enough to pivot before you started the project. So, my point being, what you do and what your business needs is going to have a player role in what leading and what lagging KPIs you are going to track. If you are having massive profit problems, you're going to hyper focus on everything that involves expenses and income. If you're having massive people problems, you're going to, hope, hyper focus on everything that involves recruiting or client satisfaction or project management or whatever, or whatever it is core value memorization and being able to recite them and talk about them. So, like I just wanted to say, like there's no exact answer, but you should always have leading and lagging key performance indicators at play to be able to read data. So, yeah, cool, alright.
Speaker 1:Next questions from cam Newman what steps did you take to move to management slash working on the business instead of working in the business? Let me clarify something quickly. No one's ever completely out of working in the business. I read a book and I man for the life, me, I don't. I don't remember like books, movie, I don't remember things like that. Well where I can just like recite quotes and you got to read this and you got to watch this and like I kind of just absorb, process myself and rearticulate often. But I read a book written by the CEO of Hobby Lobby last year. That was incredible. I wish I could remember it. I Wish I I mean it's over there somewhere, but it's over there somewhere. But I don't want to waste time looking for in the bookshelf and for you while you're listening to me.
Speaker 1:So anyway, in this book and this is a billion dollar company in this book he talks about how ridiculous the notion of, if you're gonna grow anything great that you completely like this, this, this, this fascination, if not obsession, with people talking about having to get out of working in the business. Now, in order to grow in scale, you have to get out of working in Every department and you have to get out of wearing every leadership hat. You cannot. Every single client I've ever had myself, everyone I've ever seen or talked to you, are capped at your ability to bring on and retain leadership. So if you are the head of production, the head of operations, the head of sales, the head of marketing, the head of finance, you're done wherever you are right now is exactly where you'll stay period, the end that's. That's literally the end of the discussion. You may have little spurts here and there, but every spurt up will cause misery for you and every spurt down will make you feel Intrinsically like an absolute failure. It's so not worth it. It's not even funny. Your ability to have leadership will be what scales your company to whatever next level that is for you now.
Speaker 1:My point is not you should continue working in the business forever. It. My point is that the best thing that a founder owners, entrepreneur, business owner committed to growing their company and I very clear here I'm committed to growing their company because if your company is exactly where you want it and you're happy, you can absolutely Outsource everything, including the CEO role. You can hire a really good general manager, you can hire a leadership for everything and just be the person who gets reported to. And the company is where it's at. It's just it's providing and it's flowing and it's organically doing what it's doing. That's okay too, but let's let's talk as though we're talking about scaling a business, for scaling a business You're never gonna be out of in a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:What will happen is you will have to find something inside that you're really really good at, that you really really enjoy, that you can stay in the weeds a little bit with, or else you become too Disconnected from the company. I have seen this so many times and I have gone through it myself multiple times. You become too disconnected. Too much disconnection leads to too many problems to even count, so I'm not even gonna name them now. You have to simultaneously not to contradict myself you simultaneously have to transition to working on the business as well. It's not I'm working in or on, it's I'm working in and on, and this is where everybody messes this up.
Speaker 1:So how do you go to start working on the business, not instead of, but alongside of, what you're doing in the business? This is as simple as disciplined time management. You have to set time aside to work on the company every single week, even if it's just 60 minutes by yourself at a Starbucks where nobody can bother you and you're not at home, and you're not in the office and you're not with clients. I have had so many clients Take their, take themselves in a computer to a coffee shop to schedule one-on-one time with themselves as CEO to get something done it's not even funny and 100% success rate on productivity and efficiency Skyrocketing. Getting out of the office or out of the house, away from the desk and just going and working on the business somewhere.
Speaker 1:What working on the business is strategizing org charts, reevaluation of the mission, the planning out, the vision for the year, the quarter plea, planning who's next to hire, what are the roles and responsibilities look like, what are some procedures that need document, blah, blah, blah, blah. But remember, all this stuff you call working on the business is still working in the business. Building roles and responsibilities Is a job inside the company that needs to get done. Yes, it's working on the business for the future, but it's also internal work. So, like the on versus in conversation to me is really, really misshaped and people have this really skewed view of like I work in it, so I'm a failure, versus on it and like dude, it's not, it's just wrong, it's just wrong.
Speaker 1:The goal is to get is to start setting time aside and being disciplined to it, to start working on Business activities that help grow the business. And guess what, dude, when you start working on the business, it's gonna feel a whole lot like working in the business because it's still work. Just, I hate to break that to everybody, but work is work. Whether it's on, in, left, right, up, down out, doesn't matter, it's all. It's all work.
Speaker 1:So, but to answer the question specifically, how, what steps did I take? I set discipline time for me. It was like Wednesdays, from like 9 to 10. 30 was a 90 minute block and then when I had leadership, it was a 90 minute meeting that we call an L 10 meeting. That's right out of the traction, that's right out of the EOS model of running a company. And for 90 minutes every week, the leadership team got together and discussed issues, discussed them, identified them, solved them, solved problems at a high level and then delegated the work required to implement the solutions With specific due dates. And that was it. It was very simple and it does work. Those are the steps that I took. That's a good question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a little bit of passionate, because I had to, because I'm a little passionate about the misconception out there about on, in, in, on and all that kind of Crap. Second, I tell you, man, I see people. I see people who make a lot of money and are very successful and happy, that work very much inside of their business, but they work inside their zone of genius, where they're happy, where they thrive and they hired for everything else. It's really quite that simple, which also frees up time to work on the business. So, oh, I have a question here and I'm not even gonna say who it's from, I'm gonna protect some privacy on the question but how do I rebuild after a divorce and shutting down a business? I don't have any experience with Rebuilding after a divorce and a business shutdown, and so I'm not gonna be able to answer that from a place of experience.
Speaker 1:What I can say from somebody who has hit rock bottom and has had to rebuild from nothing more than once in his life Baby steps, one step at a time, one win at a time. If you can just win the next decision, you're gonna be okay, you, everything will be okay. We often get really wrapped up in the here and the now and the what do people think about me, and what this looks like and what it sounds like, and what people are gonna say about me behind my back, and, truthfully, none of that stuff will ever actually matter. The only thing that's important is we win the next decision and we make sure that we're healthy, we make sure that we're providing for ourselves, for the people that we love. We make sure we're of service, we make sure that we, just as long as we're okay, everything will be okay. And so step one is just getting okay, getting okay with you, man, building the internal relationship. And I'm just gonna say this because it's important to me and I believe it to be the truth. There are a lot of things that only Jesus can do. There are a lot of internal issues only Jesus can solve. There's a lot of heart problems that only Jesus can rebuild and fix. And for me, instead of hyper-focusing on building a new business or finding a new woman or I, would be hyper-focused on building my relationship with Christ, because that's what has changed my life beyond anything that I can properly articulate. So I don't have any experience with that. That's the best I got.
Speaker 1:Next question here I've got finding financing to start our business from Gus. So I'm gonna say two things here, man. One before you take on debt, have a plan. Debt puts companies out of business every single day all over the world.
Speaker 1:I'm not anti-debt, I'm not pro-debt. From experience, I can tell you that debt can put you in some really hairy cash positions that you don't wanna be in. From experience, I can also tell you that debt can help you skyrocket growth. But I can tell you that without a plan to manage it, without an investment plan to spend it on direct ROI activity and decisions that immediately start to cash flow to pay for the debt schedule that you are taking on, I highly suggest you don't borrow any money. Bootstrap it, go slow, don't rush, be patient, build it right from the foundation and if you need money and financing later, a lot can be done there. So anyway, even if you need it now, just have a plan, have a plan, have a plan, have a plan, have a plan. I cannot stress enough have a plan. Debt without a plan, absolutely asking for trouble.
Speaker 1:So, as far as finding financing, I'm not a finance, I'm not a financial, anything. I'm not a professional, I'm not at anything. I'm just gonna list a few opportunities that you can do that. The Small Business Administration, the SBA. The SBA has a ton of lending programs, some that are underwritten, some that are not underwritten, some that are collateral, some that are not collateral. Then you can go to the SBA's website and the SBA can match you with lenders and you can start having conversations on your own. And then there's obviously like private funding. If you know somebody who wants to invest in you, people often trade equity in their businesses for money, capital to work with much lower risk for the borrower, higher risk for the equity partner and other than that man, save money and fund it yourself.
Speaker 1:That's what I did in the beginning, saved enough. I borrowed a little bit from my dad. When I got started I dumped everything I had in my savings. I paid my dad back, paid myself back, but that works. I had a conversation with somebody recently about the same thing. They gave me a call and asked me some tips and tricks on funding and financing and I asked them how much cash they had on hand and they told me and I said, man, you're safest bet, if you actually believe in yourself, is to take that money, take half of that savings and loan it to your business with an interest rate and pay yourself back monthly. Because if you really believe in yourself, why are you borrowing it from an institution that can come after you in a violent way, where you could loan it to yourself, pay yourself back, even with a small interest rate, and you make a little bit of money on your company to pay you some back and you can control the terms, and so, like, I'm a big fan of betting on yourself if possible. Again, I'm not anti-debt, I just I've become in the past 24 months. I've become very, very, very apprehensive to encourage people to take on debt to grow. It is incredibly dangerous if you don't know what you're doing and it can be incredibly hard to dig out of, and more people are hurt by this, like I hurt myself with this, unknowingly, while, like, in the process of growth, and so, like, I'm trying to use that experience to help people avoid it. And again, it's just have a plan, have a plan, have a plan, have a plan.
Speaker 1:So last question for today, leo what's the best way to deal with so many rejected estimates, customers saying they went with a lower bidder man, this is actually one of my favorite topics right here. Man like you're failing at selling, I'm sorry, like. And it even says I don't think we should lower prices. No, I don't think you should lower prices either. I actually have no context into your pricing versus your market and your competitors and your industry, but I agree with you. I don't think. If with no context, I agree with you, which might be, you know goofy as well, but I do. What's the best way to deal with so many rejected estimates? Audit your sales process. The customer only picks based on price if they have no nothing else to pick from. I'm going to repeat that for everybody the customer only picks on price if they have nothing else to choose from.
Speaker 1:You have to stand out. Your sales process, your follow-up process, your game has to be so far above and beyond that you are bringing so much value to the client that they have no choice but to pick you. It's worth spending 6, 12, 18% more than the competitor because you have brought so much more value on the front end. How do I bring value on the front end? You follow up with video, text, email, phone calls. How do I bring value on the front end? You give education, you educate these prospects and your conversations and your measures and your estimates are more detailed and you offer a better warranty and you show up you, you. You're the value, you are the reason they need to pick you.
Speaker 1:Winning on price sucks. I never want to win on price. I want to win on value, regardless of what it costs. I'm not saying that to say overcharge and screw people. What I'm saying is I don't want you to pick me because I lowered my price so much that you felt obligated to pick me because I was so much cheaper than the competitor. I don't ever want to be the cheapest. I don't care if I'm the most expensive, as long as I believe in exactly what it is I'm offering.
Speaker 1:But it can't just be the product or service. It has to be everything before, after and in between as well. It's so important to educate the customer on all of that. Your process should bring value. Hey, let me tell you about how we communicate with our customers during projects. Hey, let me tell you a little bit about what we do on the back end of a project. Let me tell you a little bit more about our warranty and how we really take care of people for the 12 months after the project is done.
Speaker 1:Man, listen to when customers talk to you, ask questions when you're in the home or talking on the phone, ask about their dog, their cat, their past, their job, what they like. Just be a really, really, really good listener. And then you bring that stuff back up in conversation and you remember and you send text messages. Hey, I saw this dog the other day at this estimate and it looks so much like yours. Isn't that crazy? It's not all about selling, it's about being a human being with other human beings.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you right now, people will pick you way more than they'll pick your competitors if they know you, like you and trust you and I don't say that to sound cliche as hell, and I know it does sound cliche as hell, but the truth is, if they actually feel like they know you and they like who they've gotten to know and you build enough trust in you as a person and as well as what your company can provide, price becomes, I'm going to say, a non-issue. Now, yes, there are people who have actual hard-line budgets that cannot that, no pun intended, can't budge, but those people are actually fewer and further between than you think. And also not to knock the customer. But the customer lies a lot and oftentimes says I'm going with somebody cheaper because they don't know how to tell you they don't like you. Oftentimes customers lie to salespeople about why they're not closing with the salesperson and so a lot. And I've had my own sales team say well, we're hearing this a lot, cool. And then when you walk through it you realize you don't have to adjust pricing at all. You can tweak the sales process, tweak the follow-up cadence, tweak what they're following up with in the information. All of a sudden, the price issue goes away.
Speaker 1:Because, as markets and economies change and people's personality or not personalities, but people's attitudes shift. The only reason people don't make decisions is because they don't feel like they have all the information to make the decision. And what happens is, as economies and attitudes shift and things shift and the world shifts, the information that they get shifts, which means that your information, that you output, has to shift as well to match what it is. They feel like they're missing. That's value add. Be the most informational, educational, kindest. That's how you do that. That's how you approach that. That's how I've always approached it and it works. It's worked forever. I have been doing sales forever in many, many different ways, in many different industries, so to speak, and it's always worked and I've seen it work. I've trained people to do it and it works. I watch people train people to do it and it works.
Speaker 1:Your follow-up process using video, using text, communicating with the customer they prefer to be communicated in making sure your estimates are clear. There's so much. There's so much you can do to add value that has nothing to do with price. So cool guys. Hey, first Q&A of 2024, wrapped. I appreciate you guys listening. I'll see you guys next time.